Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

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Mowgli Mowgli
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Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

$2,800.00 at Amazon.

In my opinion, overpriced.  Price far to high for the quality of the tuning.  I mention it as a public service to the new people.

Let the controversy begin/continue/evolve!
HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

This post was updated on .
Hey, Mowgli,

An interesting topic.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.  I was actually just reading through the reviews myself.  My first thought was (knowing what I know about the long-running fued): I wonder how many of those people have actually purchased a Tzevaot, and/or even played one? *

Personally, I haven't.  So I'm unable to comment on their quality.

And my second was: If Tzevaot's instruments are as bad as many would like it to be known (though in all honesty, outside of Handpan.org, most of the reviews that I've read have been favourable), perhaps Amazon is in fact the perfect place to buy one (should somebody be considering it).  People should obviously look into it for themselves before making a purchase, but from what I could see, Amazon's return policy seems pretty solid(?).  So I'm assuming that if a person were to purchase one with their hard earned monies, and upon receiving it, and giving it a test play, decided that they weren't happy with their purchase, they could send it straight back(?).

Am I missing something?  
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
Mowgli Mowgli
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

I have returned things purchased through Amazon.  The ease of the return process and the refund amount has varied considerably.  The actual retailer's refund policies govern much of the process.  Like buying through ebay, the buyer has more protection than buying directly from the retailer but there may be restrictions and limitations upon refunds and cost of shipping.

HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

I'm sure that's true.  Though with Amazon being Amazon, I'm going to assume that the option to return if unwanted, exists (though I encourage people to double check on this before purchase themselves).

Personally, I'm quite disappointed that Amazon allows non-customers to review items there (I wasn't aware of that), and feel that some genuine feedback/reviews from genuine customers would have been of greater use/interest to potential buyers, than what is going on over there at the moment.

I have no particular interest in defending Tzevaot, but I have even less interest in tit-for-tat nastiness.  One thing I can say, is that having had both a review, and a rating system in place for almost a year for Tzevaot on this site, and knowing that Teddy has joined the forums here, and knowing of all the things Tzevaot stand accused - is that not only has there not been anything in the way of sock-puppet reviews here, he/they haven't even so much as rated up their own instruments as "Hot" in the rating section.  

So again, if there is anybody out there who has purchased a Tzevaot who feels in any way hard-done-by, let it be known.  

And equally, if you've purchased one and think that it's the best thing since sliced bread, we'd love to hear about that too.

:)
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

This post was updated on .
p.s. I witnessed first-hand how certain sections of the HandPan community mobilize in a militant fashion, last time I said something neutral about Tzevaot.  I watched my Google+ pluses drop one-by-one in very quick succession.  

I'm very happy, not to have those people on-board. ;)

(Update) - [Note to self] Interesting (and expected) developments overnight.  The rumours and accusations from outside of its walls continue to gain weight.  It does appear as if something unpleasant, incestuous, Kool-Aid drinking, and incapable of independent thought - has eaten its way into the heart of that once great forum.  And has made its home there.
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
logan logan
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

What forum are you talking about?

And my own experience and thoughts on Tzevaot are in line to the original post.  I usually only browse this website for the ebay listings.  

After listening to 100s of vid (and playing dozens of quality and mediocre pans) it's pretty obvious Tzevaot lack sustain and aren't tuned that well.  

You can hear it clearly through any video of any Tzevaot.   I think anyone with experience with pans recognizes that instantly, so only people with no experience are buying these.   So, why pretend to be neutral when the videos clearly showcase enough to determine the lack of sustain and poor tuning?   You don't need to play one in person or own one to hear those blatant shortcomings....


HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

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Hey, logan.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

But I'm afraid that you place more value in your experience, than I do.

From this point on, the only thing I have any interest in seeing on this thread, are reviews from Tzevaot customers.  Good or bad.  Accompanied by a video of said pan being played (to prove ownership).  Or, even better, drop your review HERE.

Anything else will be deleted.  
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
music music
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

In reply to this post by Mowgli
The tuner of Tzevaot was the tuner for hundreds HANGS for many years. So strange that when this tuner partner with Tzevaot his skills are question? Everybody knows that to tune any kind of steel drum and to be 100% in control of the tempering of steel is only granted by many years of dedicate practice. Out of the blue, so many new makers become gurus of tuning?
Regarding Amazon, you can buy and return it easy with no problems. Anything sold by Amazon has the easy 30 days return policy with no questions ask.
The Amazon professional team of buyers of musical instruments know exactly what they invest on.
music music
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

In reply to this post by HPM
Amazon is selling Tzevaot very well but I think is wrong that clowns that don't buy a Tzevaot come and trash it.  Even with the negative comments on Amazon done buy people that never bought or play a Tzevaot, we are very please that the world recognize comments made by trolls and sales are doing best than ever. Amazon is expecting us to ship over 72 Tzevaots in 9 different scales for the last quarter of 2015. We already have the purchase orders and we place them on backorder.
HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

I personally lost a lot of faith in Amazon's reviews (something that I'd previously placed a lot of weight in) upon learning that anybody could leave one - regardless of whether they had purchased the item, or not.  That doesn't make sense to me.

I hope to see only genuine reviews from customers in the future.

As a side-note, do please leave the name-calling outside of this site.  It is my pet-hate on the internet, and it is not something that I tolerate (deserved, or not).  
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
Tzevaot Tzevaot
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

http://www.scribd.com/doc/285886679/Amazon-Complaint-Re-Reviews

Amazon filing lawsuit against fake reviews

Happy to see that Amazon is looking to protect the buyers/sellers from frivolous reviews. Although the legal work is mostly using examples of sellers buying false positive reviews, reading through it is clear that for any fake review will they be taking legal action against.

They'll be going through ISPs to find out who is actually behind the accounts to serve them directly.

I'll leave this here for a week before I contact their lawyers to submit names of any false reviews that are still active.
Making handpans available to the world

www.handpan.com to find me :)
HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

An interesting read.  Thanks.  

Though (Fiverr trickery, etc. aside), I'm not sure why they wouldn't just make it so that only people who have purchased the item from Amazon can leave a review on the site(?)...  

As a manufacturer of anything, I think you need to be open to bad reviews. But I do agree with you, that they should be genuine, from people who have purchased the product.  
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
logan logan
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

In reply to this post by Tzevaot
There are zero reviews for Tzevaot products on Amazon right now.   Good or bad.  

Teddy, can you tell me what a $3300 E# sounds like?   What is up with your Hijaz scale?  It's incorrect?

This is what you have listed as "Hijaz":
(G) C D E# F# G# A B C

HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

If you are genuinely interested in discussing the scale with Tzevaot, I'm not sure that mentioning the price in that manner is relevant to your question.  

It sounds kind of barbed.  

Which means Tzevaot will then have to "come out fighting".  

Which means just another thread (albeit now on a different website) full of the same-old-same.  

Please try to avoid that.
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel
EliOli EliOli
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

Agreed HPM.  It actually looks like this is a sale of a Tzevaot pan by another party.  One has to keep in mind also that $500.00 of that price is for that monster case.  If you also keep in mind that there is no charge for shipping, normally 100 - 200 dollars from the different makers, that price seems more reasonable for the total package, considering there is also no wait.

And remember this is Amazon.  Buying directly from Teddy is a different story.  You can negotiate with him for a much better deal like I did.
Col 3:14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
Tzevaot Tzevaot
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

In reply to this post by HPM
Constructive reviews are endlessly valuable because they can show a company a lot about what they don't see so they can actually improve their product/customer service/etc.

False/Fake reviews are damaging to the industry as a whole -- if it is so easy to put a false review on a good company, it is just as easy for a bad company to put good reviews on themselves which leads to people getting scammed.



Making handpans available to the world

www.handpan.com to find me :)
Tzevaot Tzevaot
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

In reply to this post by logan
Reviews

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V3RVSSM?refRID=0D0WGGB190YM67JHD922&ref_=pd_rhf_se_p_img_1 -- 4 reviews 2 real 2 not

http://www.amazon.com/Tzevaot-PENTA-C-Steel-Drum/dp/B00V3RVVNE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_267_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TEPQBY3ZVENM2A83BJ2 -- 1 real 1 not

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1IT8ED5D1JHJ6/ref=cm_aya_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00TWT2VBQ#wasThisHelpful - 1 more fake

If you would like me to breakdown why I call out a certain review as fake and not a true negative review, I will be happy to. Once I start digging I will find the ~20 reviews.

Cost

The value of something is a lot more than what you receive in the box. If you a buy a car you're not paying for the materials and to put them together, you're paying for the fact that you hit the brakes and you will stop 10/10 times.

So yeah, an E# at a point, other makers can make an E# that sounds just as good as ours, but will it be in tune next month? Will it not rust? If a performer or a composer needs an instrument for a project -- they know that we will answer them and have been delivering faster than any other maker for a long time now. If a person interested doesn't have the money to pay in full, can they pay few hundred and get the instrument in 48 hours?

The question is loaded, like the others mentioned. And as Eli mentioned, the hardcase and shipping and sometimes they do sales(!) and you can always buy direct for less -- I'm not the most expensive and I'm not the cheapest, but you get a very high quality instrument for what you pay and customer service that can be trusted by professionals in the industry.


Scale

As far as the Hijaz, it is incorrect. That's why it hasn't been available for sale by Amazon yet. We are still in the process of updating each scale, it's very difficult for them to add video to a product page(you can google this), but we have received their approval and are in the process of adding video in and testing each product page. The Hijaz scale is a very unique sound that while beautiful and incredible, it has a very distinct sound that shouldn't be sold without first being heard. When the instrument is available for sale you will find the scale notes corrected.

If you find an instrument that has an incorrect scale, please notify me by e-mail in the future so I can have a much faster response time to avoid any errors to customers.

Making handpans available to the world

www.handpan.com to find me :)
logan logan
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

Indeed, I apologize for the seemingly "barbed" attack -- I only meant to shine light on your use of E#....   Nobody uses E# unless you're knee deep in theory.  

No sense in bringing any drama to HPM's sleepy website.   It's so nice and quiet!

I did email you guys a month ago, Tz!   Never heard back...    Should I try again?

Thx Amazon for the return policy!   I might be doing a "real" review soon :)  
HPM HPM
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Re: Tzevaot Selling On Amazon

In reply to this post by Tzevaot
Thanks for the response.  And particularly, for not taking the bait.

If you respond to logan, please be aware that he will not be able to respond back.

He is no longer a member here.  

Those who are unable to treat others with respect, are not welcome.
HandPans Magazine - The Home of UFO-Shaped Singing Steel